We need a proving ground.

This seems like a) lots of work and b) a very elitist mindset.

I have seen some people get into top games their first week here, and some that have been around for ages who can derail/ruin games.

I agree that maybe there should be a tutorial or something, but I don't think people should be totally restricted from "real" games until they can "prove themselves."

I was in 3 top games in my week and a half... maybe 2 weeks. I can't draw so I just guess. I would not play if it was tougher to gain levels than it already was.

The intention is to have a "proving ground" of sorts, where the site will be split into two groups. The first group will include everyone under 100 points, with the option that anyone above 100 can also join in, and a second group for everyone over 100 points.

The numbers here are just examples, but this is something Reed has talked about in the past and it's bound to turn up during the Beta phase to see if it would work or not.

@MelissaRocks

It's not elitist to want to give new players a place to get used to the game.

It's not that these new players are intentionally derailing games, but I've seen it time, and time again where new players, who are not yet used to the drawing mechanics, time limit, or instructions, are derailing games out of inexperience.

Some new players may simply be checking things out without sure if they're going to continue or not. So, they put in minimal effort just to see what happens.

I think everyone should have the opportunity to be a part of the game, but as I mentioned above, it's been shown many times that mixing new people with those who understand the game can result in a frustrating experience for all.

@Crazylegsmurphy, I understand what you are saying, and I agree that there should be a place where people learn the game, as in WoW. I learned quickly through playing the game (I just jumped in with not much looking around) that the level of drawing of many people here is phenomenal and that my first drawings were not sufficient.

The problem comes in where there are a bunch of noobs and no one of a higher level playing with them to show them the ropes. I have no solution in mind at the moment. Perhaps something like a (back to WoW) PvP (damn, that makes me miss it) area where you have to opt in.

I don't think you can make comparisons to WoW or any other online game. Really Drawception is not a 'game' at all. There is no way to win or lose (except by being troll). I don't see the point of limiting new players any more than they already are. If you don't want to play with new people, then you can just do friend games.

The sand box is set up to let people practice their drawing skills and master the tools. If you don't get in the mix with vet players you will never learn what a good game should look like. Good drawings don't always equal a good game either. I agree that some new players can muck a game up and it's not intended, but that's that's part of the luck of the draw. It every game it great are any games really great then?

There need to be SOME kinds of standards at least. I'm sick of seeing amorphous blobs with arrows and words drawn around them.

Honestly, I get what you guys are all saying, but I really don't like this.

When I first started out, I thought this was like pictionary (and that's kind of how I still explain it to others). I pretty much drew no background and used the default line (think it's the second one?) and just drew some crappy outlines trying to get the point across. It wasn't until I started seeing the more experienced users that I started changing the way I play the game.

Having everyone mixed in together is a great learning environment on more than one level and often times makes games even more enjoyable. From my experience (which isn't much so I could totally be wrong), the number of games being "ruined" is really not all that many in comparison to the hundreds of games that get through just fine. Very few of the 94 games I've been in have I ever considered ruined.

I guess in the long run it just seems very discouraging to me. Rather than focusing on segregating the two groups; newbs and experienced players, perhaps expand more upon the reporting system to better weed out those who are blatantly causing the ruckous or even provide the messaging system in which we can send a friendly FYI to said new user who one feels might benefit from a little extra coaching.

SpanishDoll, I completely agree!

@SpanishDoll

The problem is that as more and more new players find out about this game, the percentage of new artists is going to increase.

This increase is going to cause a lot of games to be ruined. This is exactly why you have initial starting places in games like WoW. Go create a free account and look at all the new players just running around doing anything and everything they can as they learn the game.

As you get further into the game, you see more experienced players having a much richer experience because they're able to play with other players who have worked out how the game works.

Currently we have XP and levels, but no real reason for it. If it was structured so XP gave you access to more experienced players, then it would not only keep the Trolls at bay, but give incentive for new players to stick around and learn the game.

The reason I bring this whole thing up is because so many of my games have been completely derailed by some new player who obviously is just "messing around" with the game.

It's not that they're trying to be Trolls, it's just that they're not sure how things work, nor are they sure they want to commit to the game yet. Your suggestion of a messaging system won't really help either because A. The games have already been ruined. B. Being bombarded by experienced players (who aren't always going to be nice about it) will do little but discourage them.

Personally, if my hard work resulted in my games being played by the more experienced players on this site, I would do the best I could.

I agree with the need for this.

In drawception terms there is little more frustrating than going to the full effort to create a drawing you're genuinely pleased with only for it to end up in a game full of brand new players who simply have not gone to any effort.

It's fully understandable - I didn't go to any effort in my first few drawings either and I'm certainly not a good artist - but you can tell when someone has gone to a lot of effort to draw something and when they haven't.

Players who use up the 10 minutes and genuinely try to draw something good deserve to be in games full of other like minded players. Yes, there will always be a difference in standard and the best players may feel disappointed at the artwork of us mere mortals - but at least they couldn't complain about the effort put in.

But that way you propose that effort to be measured is severely flawed and ultimately "in the eye of the beholder"...cliche, I know, but it's true.

Take this panel for instance. http://drawception.com/pub/panels/2012/5-1/tGtT5swREA-12.png This is a panel from my very first day. I put a LOT of effort into that (I would say). I ran out of time and filled the whole screen. It was my first panel to fill the whole screen. It received two votes.

Now take this panel. http://drawception.com/pub/panels/2012/7-5/wPbzkWaA8w-2.png To be completely honest, I put absolutely no effort into this what so ever. I didn't even use half of the time given to me. Yet it received 71 votes.

My guess is that the difference comes into play where there were a lot of great artists in the second one while nothing but newbs in the first one. Monkey see, monkey do. You put too many of the newbs and not so great artists in together, then that becomes the set standard of what is and is not acceptable. That and more newbs are less likely to vote which leaves people sitting at the bottom that do not deserve to be there in the first place.

I guess ultimately what I'm trying to say is punish those who are doing wrong. Don't penalize those who happened to stumble upon a great game and want to have a good time.

And just as a side point regarding the points and levels...

As I understand it, Reed is working on developing an additional rewards system that unlocks new and improved features. That in itself will generate the desire to put forth more effort so such items can be unlocked. Adding a bonus in there of "OH hey! If you get this many points you can join the regular, more experienced players in the forum!" is just plain unfair.

It's incredibly discouraging to be placed in group that basically says you're not good enough.

@SpanishDoll

It's not about being good enough. It is about not being allowed to muck up the games of experienced players while you learn the ropes.

You posted two photos as an example, but those don't represent what I am talking about. Here are some examples of what I mean.

http://drawception.com/pub/panels/2012/7-12/XgdP9xf8F6-4.png

http://drawception.com/pub/panels/2012/7-12/sMqRfPgBGK-2.png

This player joined July 12th, submitted 4 games and then hasn't done anything since.

This could be for any number of reasons, but regardless, they arguably wrecked every game they participated in.

I see this type of thing time and time again. A new player who is either learning, or is just trying out the game, puts in almost no effort.

I don't think the "monkey see, monkey do" is the reason why some players try harder. When you're searching through games to play, you're given a random description. You have no idea what other artists are participating in the game until the end.

I think what is more realistic is new players just wanna check out the game, and so they put in minimal effort just to see what happens. If it's not for them, or they have minimal interest, then it's basically a dead account, and a wrecked game.

By having a proving ground, new players who actually cared to progress and become better artists would quickly work their way through the XP, and become part of the regular community.

The thing is, I don't think being in the new player proving ground actually takes away from the experience. If it is as you say, then everyone in the proving ground should have equal opportunity to have good games. Some will be good, and some will be horrible and that's fine.

Past that, in the "regular" community, you can assume that the players are there because they actually want to be, and I think this will translate into better games overall.

To quote:

"But that way you propose that effort to be measured is severely flawed and ultimately "in the eye of the beholder".

We're not proposing to measure effort - we are proposing to assume a lack of effort by players in their first few games. It's not unreasonable - if you look at any account with quite a few drawings, their first few drawings are invariably much worse than their latter efforts. The reasons are twofold: skill and effort. The former naturally increases as you play more; the latter tends to.

We are not proposing to differentiate on the grounds of skill, however; only predicted effort. My motivation for wanting such a change is to prevent games like this:

http://drawception.com/viewgame/hPbPbXtr9H/gus-from-crazy-taxi/

all the other artists in that game were levels 1-2 at the time the game completed and I'd suggest all their panels reflect this general lack of effort that brand new players display. I was genuinely frustrated when I saw it as I thought mine was one of my better panels...c'est la vie, but this kind of thing happens frequently.

Of course there will be some exceptions, and those exceptions will progress naturally to the "full" game. It's not a case of punishing them, as you put it, it's actually a case of rewarding anyone who finds themselves enjoying their time on here.

I guess I just have a different mindset. To me things like that are to be expected, as in any game. I also seem to have a different perspective of what I consider a "ruined" game. One poorly drawn (no effort panel) does not equate to me as a ruined game. I actually thought the Trouble Muffin game still came out alright.

But don't get me wrong, I can see your guys' point. I just think I have a different level of tolerance of what should and should not be expected. But I can definitely understand the desire behind wanting a good game when putting for so much effort. I just think that if you want a guaranteed good game for the amount of effort put forth, you should stick to friend only games. Because let's face it, no matter if you put a level cap, group, point system, whatever, there is always going to be a large base of users who put little effort into it and they're always going to find a way to your games.

And on that note, this chica is going to bed. It's been a loooong week and it's finally over. My pillow is calling my name. :P

Perhaps instead of having to level up a bunch of times, how about making the player do 3-5 "Tutorial prompts" (not actually apart of an actual game, but would come from a pool of prompts and pictures and be visible in the player's pic section if they so choose.) before being able to play with others?

That way, they would get a taste of the game without too much of a requirement and would likely improve a bit.

Also, it would be cool if anyone could do a tutorial prompt to train on their own.

Reed's already mentioned that he wants to do this, and he's also mentioned that he wants experienced users to be able to participate in newbie areas if they want to. So the new players will still get to see how more experienced people play, while the veterans will get to have more games that aren't screwed up by people trying to figure out how it works.

I do agree that a tutorial or something would be a good alternative.

I agreed with OP, when i first started playing i drew practically everything because it was new and i wanted to see the outcomes, as a result my images suffered. Whereas now i only pick certain phrases and spend the full 10 mins on an image.

Perhaps this could be solved by having individual "rooms" that players can play in. For example- the "Newbie Room" anyone could draw in but it would be recommended for players of levels 15 and less. Another room could be titled ""Standard room lvls 15-50" and so on. Heck, if people really get into it, you could even have a section for only paying members, and charge a small annual fee to play in a "professional" room of sorts. I am sure only truly dedicated drawception members would play in the professional room! ;)